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 Hounds???????

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longranger
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PostSubject: Hounds???????   Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:06 pm

This species hunt got me thinking about hounds and why the common smooth hound is called the common one when it doesn't seem as common as the stary one (or is that just North Wales ) also is it a true separate species and other than the stars is there any other differences


Please educate me scratch scratch
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headwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:14 pm

Ive read somewhere that all the smuts we get in this country are actually Starry Smoothhounds but some dont show the markings.

Not sure about it myself.

Maybe they were named in another country where commons are more common than starrys and the names carried over or translated?

We will continue to count them as 2 different species for the hunt. cheers

Interesting question though scratch scratch scratch
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longranger
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:21 pm

Thanks Kev ,I agree two for the hunt ,keeps it interesting,just crossed my mind as I was whipping a crab on the other day,I think I only ever had one common Very Happy

Common smoothounds are as common as common sense lol!
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headwyn
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:33 pm

Ive had a lot more Starrys than commons, think ive only had a couple, but one was that decent one i had in the Trearddur Bay boat match a few years ago.

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longranger
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:43 pm

I remember that day well mate cracking fishing and you were made up with that fish as anyone would be its a belter Very Happy
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stevo
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:46 pm

A very good question andy I two have caught more starry's than common 's
I've just come across this. Very Happy

Starry Starry Hounds

Smoothhounds are one of the few species which  are showing an increase in numbers in north European waters, probably due to the lack of commercial pressure and the widely establish practice of catch and release from the angling perspective.







The long established method of identification of the starry smoothhound and the common smoothhound was to accept that the starry version had spots and the common did not. However until recently the only methods of accurately distinguishing between the two involved the killing of pregnant females as the common smoothhound pups have a placental connection to the parent through the wall of the uterus whereas the young of the starry have no physical connection to the mother and rely on the yolk sac during early stages of development. Alternatively, close examination of the denticles, the rough shark "scales", on the body or in the mouth can produce a positive ID but all of these methods involve killing the fish. None of these methods is particularly productive for large scale studies hence little was known about the life of the smoothhound and historical data could not be relied upon given the problems of ensuring accurate species identification.

Smoothhound DNA - A small sample is taken from the rear dorsal finSmoothhound DNA - Sample bottle



Fortunately a research project at University College Dublin, carried out by Dr. Edward Farrell under the supervision of Dr. Stefano Mariani of the SBES and Dr. Maurice Clarke of the Marine Institute, published in 2009, established an identification test using mitochondrial DNA. This involves taking a small sample from the rear dorsal fin and extracting the DNA to compare with reference samples. This allowed the scientists to quickly and accurately identify the two species and has resulted in further studies into the life of the smoothhound.

Smoothhound DNA - Notched fin on a small hound



As a result of Ed's study the various Record Fish committees are faced with a problem as the study did not find one single "common" smoothhound in all the samples submitted. The samples, which were collected from Ireland, Wales and the east coast of England, all turned out to be from starry smoothies. The 430 submitted sample clippings included fish with prominent spots, faint spots and those with no spots at all which were thought by the captors to be commons. The published study clearly indicates that the common smoothhound is in fact extremely uncommon and may in fact never be found north of its established  waters in the Mediterranean and more southern waters.

Smoothhound DNA - Fin sample in bottleSmoothhound DNA - Rack of samples ready for dispatch



Irish fish recorders have already accepted the study findings and now include only one smoothound on their lists for record or specimen claims. Other Nations have been slow to catch on but gradual acceptance should see the Scottish and Welsh lists changing soon. Unfortunately, despite DNA evidence that would convict in a murder case, the curators of the main British list are not yet convinced. Samples are therefore still being submitted and it was good to see the process in action aboard My Way where skipper Gethyn Owen quickly and efficiently sampled and recorded the details of around a dozen smoothhounds during a recent boat session out of Holyhead. The gallery pictures clearly show the removal of the small sample from the fin of a hound which was then returned to the sea.


Author: Dave Proudfoot

Publish Date: Tuesday 17th June 2014























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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:31 am

http://www.sharktrust.org/shared/downloads/factsheets/common_smoothhound_st_factsheet.pdf

http://www.sharktrust.org/shared/downloads/factsheets/starry_smoothhound_st_factsheet.pdf
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longranger
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:53 pm

Wow thanks,I did say educate me Very Happy
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Logger
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:49 pm

Every day a school day study
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Notbad
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:27 pm

You don't get this kind of quality on Facebook !

Thanks taking the time to provide info guys
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stevo
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:19 pm

I wonder what the charter boat skipper view is on it
if they get more starrys than commons?
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:59 pm

As far as I'm aware we seem to see more starrys than commons. However I have heard that around here they're all the same specie off a few people, could be they've read the same thing stevo found. Possibly something we'll never find out as like it says the only way to be sure is killing them and why would anyone want to do that
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Dan
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:24 am

When out on gethyn Owens boat during early July he was telling me about the study done on the hounds, they (the scientists)found that all the hounds found in our waters were starrys and the commons were found in the med, regardless of the markings,does that mean I'm docked 1 species for the hunt??  lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:35 am

Dan wrote:
When out on gethyn Owens boat during early July he was telling me about the study done on the hounds, they (the scientists)found that all the hounds found in our waters were starrys and the commons were found in the med, regardless of the markings,does that mean I'm docked 1 species for the hunt??  lol!

Yes plus another 20 as a penalty for cheating Twisted Evil

And you'll still be bloody winning lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Hounds???????   Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:38 pm

Logger wrote:
Dan wrote:
When out on gethyn Owens boat during early July he was telling me about the study done on the hounds, they (the scientists)found that all the hounds found in our waters were starrys and the commons were found in the med, regardless of the markings,does that mean I'm docked 1 species for the hunt??  lol!

Yes plus another 20 as a penalty for cheating Twisted Evil

And you'll still be bloody winning lol!

He'll still be way out in the lead lol! or we could ban him lol! lol! lol!
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