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 Can one boat rod do it all??

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MusselMan
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PostSubject: Can one boat rod do it all??   Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:54 pm

Ok so I don't get out boat fishing very often. Last year I managed two trips. Both were successful though.

My main boat rod was bought back in the 70's, for deep sea fishing in the solent, where we used leads of up to 2lbs. It is time for an upgrade to that broomstick! Hopefully santa will be good to me this year. Especially if I can provide the right link ;-)

Things have moved on considerably since the last time I bought a boat rod, so I have lots of questions. Please excuse my lack of knowledge.

Can I get away with just one boat rod for fishing both the stronger tides of the Mersey, and the calmer waters around Rhyl? I have not got my head around the idea of casting from a boat, so I am essentially thinking of rods for downtiding (i.e. dropping straight down). I often fish near the cabin as well (skipper serves you tea first but you need most lead to hold bottom).

Some rods are marketed as 20lb, some 30lb, 20-30lb, 12-20lb, 18-25, 25-30. Which one should I go for ? (Why are boat rods sold by line lb and not by oz of weights they can reasonably be fished with?)

Possibly the best made rods I have ever owned is an ugly stick spinning rod I bought on holiday in Oz many years ago. For this reason I am bending towards getting an ugly boat rod. Good choice? Shakespeare confuse the issue themselves though by having a similarly priced "salt extreme" rod. I am not clear what the difference is. Is it a better rod than an ugly?

I have not yet switched to braid. Can you fish mono line on a braid boat rod? Is the only difference that the rod might bend a little different? I am thinking spend the few pounds extra on the braid rod but fish it with mono initially.

And then there are the multi-tip boat rods. Any good or just a gimic ?

Choosing a boat rod was much easier in the 70s! Advice appreciated.

p.s. If any of these questions are really stupid, please replace "I" with "My friend", and "My with "His". Wink

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My best Rhyl fish in 2012 - 29lb tope - it was this big  cheers  Very Happy
My best Rhyl fish in 2013 - two bull huss at once - on a single hook trace scratch
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Logger
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PostSubject: Re: Can one boat rod do it all??   Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:14 am

Great questions Exclamation
Havnt got a clue Exclamation
Deserves some good answers though Exclamation
Certainly better than this one lol!
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Notbad
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PostSubject: Re: Can one boat rod do it all??   Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:00 pm


What a cracking question

A friend of mine would like to know the answers too Wink
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simon parry
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PostSubject: Re: Can one boat rod do it all??   Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:18 pm

It's not a simple answer. Yes one rod can do it all. But it has to be the right rod. If you get a 6 foot 30lb class (or more) rod you are going to really struggle on the Mersey. Yes it would cope with the tides but you're not going to be able to cast very well with it.
With uptiders one thing you need to take into account is its length. When your line has been cast out you have a large bow in it to hold the bottom and a lot of strain is on the rod (this is also where rods with softer tips come into play, I'll get to that) the best thing to do in this situation is place the butt further back on the boat so that where the rod rests is closer to the tip and keeps the main weight of the rod in the boat. However, if there is limited room on the boat (engine box, tackle boxes, etc in the way) this may not be possible and if your rod is on the larger side it means it may start being swung round by the force of the tide or worse, although very rare, end up going for a swim. Another problem this causes is your lead gets broken out a lot easier when the boat is rocking. My advice would be to keep under 10 ft if you go with the uptider.
On to types of rods suitable for both areas. Given those two options the uptiders seems the better to handle everything and I would say it is. Some rods solve the length issue by having an extendible butt section that pulls out to aid casting and then you push it back in when you place your rod down. This also makes it more comfortable when it comes to real in.
There is another option to consider nowadays and it is one that I and my dad have gone with for hire rods and some of our personal rods. There is a mid range of rods around 8'6 in length and they are long enough to get a decent cast with but short enough to make life easier for down tiding. We have just bought the Shakespeare ugly stick rods in this range for use as hire rods as we can use them in bothe Rhyl and on the Mersey. We went for the 20-30lb class just so they can take a bit more abuse and so far I am impressed with them. They can handle some decent fish with some nice cod and rays landed on the Mersey and some decent pollock, ling, Huss and small congers caught on them so far when we were using them in Rhyl. Personally I use a 15-20lb greys longboat and I really do like this rod. I've had it a couple of years and it has caught, amongst other things, tope to over 40lb conger to around 25lb, rays to 15lb, it's great fun for pollock on the wrecks, cod on the Mersey and smoothound off Rhyl but, thanks to braid, it's light enough and soft enough in the tip to see every bite. From even the likes of weavers, poor cod and other silly little things.
The two rods I've just mentioned, like a lot on the market these days, are designed for braid. They are tapered weights so a 20-30 is 20 at the tip and 30 at the base so you'll have a nice light action that acts a spring, as I mentioned earlier this helps keep you lead on the bottom on a choppy day as it'll bend before it pulls the lead out, but with a decent fish on the power will come into the rod lower down. These rods can be used with mono. The issue is more to do with braid no being ideal on a rod designed for mono. Braid doesn't stretch so a stiff rod means there is no give when playing a fish, therefore increasing you chance of losing it but mono on a braid rod doesn't really make a great deal of difference.
On the market those two rods are around the £70-80 range along with similar like the penn power stick. Uptiders generally cost a little extra (if you want a good one anyway) so depends on your budget too.

Personally I would go for either an uptider or the slightly shorter rod. It's also worth noting that uptiding out of Rhyl produces more fish anyway. If you go for a braid rod you will have a good action and the option to always go to braid one day. Personally I also prefer the light option and tend to stick with rods no more than 20lb class (note if it goes on casting weight that's no more than 8oz) but that's down to you. I think they're more fun and if you're careful can still land bigger fish but if you prefer, like we have with the hire rods, something that can take a little more abuse then go up to 30lb. Any more than that is unneccesary off either rhyl or the Mersey.

There's probably some points I've missed out but I hope this helps in some way.

As far as your casting ability goes there's only one way to improve and that's get out there and practice. A field is as good as anywhere and what real you use makes a huge difference. If your real isn't designed for casting then it doesn't matter what rod you have
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simon parry
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PostSubject: Re: Can one boat rod do it all??   Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:28 pm

Also if you want to try anything before you go out and buy something then I or my dad would be happy to let you have a go of the rods we have when you're next out with us
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Logger
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PostSubject: Re: Can one boat rod do it all??   Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:33 pm

And the 2012 award for the fullest and most comprehensive answer goes to.....

Sorry TL you'll have to go some to beat THAT lol!
Great answer though, wish i was clever cheers
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Kirky's Dad
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PostSubject: Re: Can one boat rod do it all??   Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:37 pm

That a great answer I can even understand it, well most of it, well some of it.
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MusselMan
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PostSubject: Re: Can one boat rod do it all??   Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:36 pm

The longest answer I can recall to any question I have seen on this forum ! Smile

My understanding is that, whilst there are lots of options, something like this should do the trick

https://www.tackleuk.co.uk/#Shakespeare-Ugly-Stik-BRAID-842-Boat-20-30lb/sp/547712

(will be passing this link on to santa at the weekend unless anyone persuades me otherwise)

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My best Rhyl fish in 2012 - 29lb tope - it was this big  cheers  Very Happy
My best Rhyl fish in 2013 - two bull huss at once - on a single hook trace scratch
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simon parry
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PostSubject: Re: Can one boat rod do it all??   Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:41 am

MusselMan wrote:
The longest answer I can recall to any question I have seen on this forum ! Smile

My understanding is that, whilst there are lots of options, something like this should do the trick

https://www.tackleuk.co.uk/#Shakespeare-Ugly-Stik-BRAID-842-Boat-20-30lb/sp/547712

(will be passing this link on to santa at the weekend unless anyone persuades me otherwise)


That's exactly what we use for the hire rods. I should have just posted that link myself. Would have saved a lot of time and effort
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MusselMan
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PostSubject: Re: Can one boat rod do it all??   Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:48 pm

I got one. Thanks Santa! cheers santa cheers

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My best Rhyl fish in 2013 - two bull huss at once - on a single hook trace scratch
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stevo
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PostSubject: Re: Can one boat rod do it all??   Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:53 pm

The ugly stick is a very nice rod was thinking of getting one myself
the 8-12lb class just for a bit of sport.

The rod i use is a abu conlon 20-30lb and 7 9" lenght it seems to cope with
everything from small dabs to decent size bullhuss(not caught anything big on it yet) but
you can see every bite and great for the mersey but i don't think they make them anymore.
I think a second hand one will cost between £20-£50
money well spent.

Hope this helps santa  rendeer  santa  rendeer
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